Unbearable Pain
As a follow up to my last two posts, I wanted to comment on something that was said to us often in our ordeals:
“Don’t worry too much. The Lord has said he won’t give us more than we can bear.”
The problem is, He never said that. The correct reference is 1 Corinthians 10:13
“…But God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”
The Lord never said that we wouldn’t face obstacles in our lives that we couldn’t overcome. I think that the vast number of Saints don’t understand this principle and are hasty to judge those in the throes of unbearable pain.
That is a good point.
But what exactly is unbearable pain? Is it pain so bad that you give up on life? Is is so bad that you have to commit suicide?
Comment by Ian M. Cook — 1/27/2006 @ 5:50 pm
This reminds me that trite phrase that “Jesus never said it was going to be easy, He just said it would be worth it.” ummmm…no he didn’t.
Plenty of the Saints have not overcome. Look at the pioneers. God only knows the suffering that happens in this life. I used to be more opposed to the Catholic concept of Salvafici Dolores, than I am now. Though, I still think that it is problematic.
Comment by J. Stapley — 1/27/2006 @ 7:20 pm
I can honestly say that for a time when we went through all of the IVF treatments and failed that I was not reacting or acting the way I would normally…or even coherently.
Perhapse the best example of this kind of pain was felt by a member of the church while I was in Grad school. His wife and two children were killed in a car accident leaving him alone to deal with the pain. The pain was such that he fell away from the church for a time and looked for numbing in chemical substances. Frankly, when I looked at his situation, I could not fault him…although many did.
Comment by Craig S. — 1/27/2006 @ 8:55 pm
I think that “God will never tempt you beyond what you can bear” is one of the biggest crocks in the church and is a tool of Satan to discourage people who think, “I can’t bear this, I must not be worthy, I suck.”
Crap. Sometimes we just can’t bear things. That doesn’t mean that we cope and perhaps overcome, but at the moment of our Gethsemanes, it’s cruel to say that to someone. I would say some real bad words, because they would say, “You must be really strong since all this bad stuff happened to you.”
What bulls**t.
Comment by annegb — 1/27/2006 @ 9:44 pm
I’m glad Craig posted this. It goes along with what I said in his last post. Namely, we have complete agency, which means so does everyone else. It also means that crappy things happen to just about everyone, but not in equal measure and not in proportion to your worthiness. The limits set are done on Lucifer, who has earned no agency, preventing him from overstepping his bounds.
Great scriptural reference, Craig.
And annegb, lets try to keep this PG. Unless you are a cattle rancher and step in it all day, you aren’t allowed to say bulls**t.
Comment by Chris S. — 1/28/2006 @ 11:43 am
The truth is we can’t bear all temptation or trials. That is the danger of limited reading of scriptures. One can all too easily draw what is not meant from one verse.
I have taken inspiration from a different scripture lately, and I think it clarifies a bit. 2 Corinthians 12:7-10. It has been a strength as I’ve worked through my struggles, but a conversation with a friend put it the best. My friend had come to me for advice, as she was really struggling with divorced parents and a number of things. As I tried to console her, telling her that she needed to stop trying to be so strong and avoid receive help from some necessary sources, she burst, “So are you saying I’m not strong enough?!” I replied, “Yes. None of us are, unless we rely on the Lord. When we try to do it on our own, we are at our weakest. But when we place all our trust in him and his strength, we can overcome all.”
I know that it is hard to gather that much trust, especially in the face of seeming abandonment. Still, if we can just come to that point, we are promised that he bear our burdens.
I don’t fault anyone for any difficulties they bear. It often is harder than outsiders can know. I suppose that those are the times where one can devote hiom or herself to being a bearer of another’s burdens. We can all be answers to prayers.
Comment by Jonathan R. — 1/28/2006 @ 4:33 pm
Sorry, I get mixed up what blogs I can cuss on and what blogs I can’t. 🙂
If you saw me in real life, you would never think that I could reel off a string of obscenities at a moment’s notice.
I hate whenever people bring up this idea, because it seems such a condemnation of me. And I sit there and think, “let’s kill off a couple of your kids and see how well you do.”
And yet, you know what? I feel better than them. I think “what a wuss” that girl couldn’t handle a hangnail, I could take her with both my hands tied.
And I am sitting there in my $75 hairdo, good nails and makeup, a nice dress, all Molly Mormon-y looking when I think it, too. Maybe we’re all contradictions.
Comment by annegb — 1/29/2006 @ 9:45 am
annegb,I love your comments. I love the brutal honesty and the compassion that comes through anyway…thank you.
Comment by Craig — 1/29/2006 @ 1:54 pm
I think the scripture reference and the doctrine are that we are never forced to sin. There is always a way and a possibility to avoid sinning.
But I think it might sometimes be a small moment, where if we give in to temptations in that moment we are suddenly on a slippery downhill slope, and the wrongdoings that may follow may not be entirely our free choices for a while.
Comment by Ben Ramsey — 1/29/2006 @ 8:29 pm
The 1st Corinithians reference is specifically taking about temptation. There are many things that are huge burdens on our shoulders that having nothing to do with temptation or sin.
You hit the nail on the head, Craig. It is a huge misreading to use that scripture to try to comfort someone who’s pain doesn’t come from temptation or sin.
Comment by Chad Too — 1/30/2006 @ 1:03 pm
People want to help–like all of us who read this. There are some things, though, that there just really is not any easy comfort to be had, and I think that’s just not ok for some people–like they need to feel like they made it better or something. So, they take a scripture and square peg it into the round situation.
I’m still of a (and I paraphrase myself) “dude, that like beyond sucks; I have no idea why you’re having to go through it, but I hope you get to find out someday” kind of attitude. (though considerately less flippant than that, y’know)
I thought about you guys when I was reading the latest Ensign. There’s a lot on similar topics in there this month. (but you probably knew that…)
Also, in another conversation (actually about us maybe someday getting another baby) my husband reminded me a of a family that we once met who, something like 15 years after a tubal ligation, was blessed with one more child who is, today, an amazing, talented young lady. That baby from the blessing may yet come.
Comment by Naiah Earhart — 1/30/2006 @ 5:49 pm
Annegb, great comment (#4). Naiah, I love the square-peg analogy. I think it also leads people into a Mormonized version of pelagianism (the idea that if we try hard enough, we can avoid sin). I just finished reading Givens’ By the Hand of Mormon, and I never noticed how pessimistic toward the human condition of sinfulness the BofM is, thanks to him. Pelagius would have hated the BofM, yet this doctrine discussed here we perpetuate as if to suggest we can avoid it or get through it just fine. On the other hand, Luther would probably say the BofM isn’t strong enough in its pessimism.
So no, I don’t care for the idea that there’s always an escape route. If there is, it’s seldom found, if ever.
Comment by David J — 1/31/2006 @ 1:56 am
The 1st Corinithians reference is specifically taking about temptation. There are many things that are huge burdens on our shoulders that having nothing to do with temptation or sin.
You hit the nail on the head, Craig. It is a huge misreading to use that scripture to try to comfort someone who’s pain doesn’t come from temptation or sin.
Well, as far as it goes … but the proof text (a proof text being a verse misused out of proper context for an improper meaning) still endures. I still remember some lady speaking in the proof text mode, who had married the poor guy whose first wife had died about how the speaker had just endured and everything had worked out. I kept thinking … but someone died and you’ve completely missed the point.
The point is
We may go mad, we will die, but no matter how mangled we get, God can bring us home and heal us.
God can deliver us, not cause us to avoid.
There is nothing that says we aren’t going to need a lot of healing.
Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — 1/31/2006 @ 1:41 pm
btw, great comic on grief:
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20060131.html
Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — 1/31/2006 @ 1:54 pm
Good comic, Stephen. How do you find these things?
I’ve written a small essay on grief, equating the loss of a leg. I was trying to make people who haven’t lost a child understand. How soon would they get over losing a leg? Some people can understand that better.
Comment by annegb — 2/1/2006 @ 3:10 am
To not be one who complains but offers no alternative:
Rather than the prooftext above, I offer Ether 6:5-12 for those who face heavy burdens. I find great comfort that even though the fierce wind sometimes buries us in the sea and the waves crash over us the Lord is using those tools as a means to drive us toward the promised land.
I think too many times we look to the Lord to protect us from the storm when what we should be asking is for him to protect us in the storm.
Comment by Chad Too — 2/2/2006 @ 1:18 pm
Good idea, Chad. I’m officially stealing it.
Comment by annegb — 2/3/2006 @ 9:27 pm
It seems to me that two things are being confused here. I see the point that the verse in Corinthians is talking about sin, not pain. And yet, the question arises as to what it means not to be able to bear pain. If it means that the pain might drive us to sin, doesn’t that make it temptation? If it means that we might just have a nervous breakdown and be unable to function or need counseling or have whatever emotional or mental difficulties, that is an entirely differnet matter.
Comment by Steve H — 2/6/2006 @ 12:57 am
Steve H.
I get the point about the pain driving us to sin, but can we really sin if we have been driven mad, to a nervious breakdown, or unable to function?
Are we accountable when life’s pain has driven us past thinking?
Comment by Craig — 2/6/2006 @ 8:46 am
Purely speculation here, but if that pain drives us to hurt others, how can we not be accountable in some way?
That’s what I did. I hold myself responsible.
Comment by annegb — 2/6/2006 @ 10:52 am
I read a thing once, to help explain suicidal feelings to people who judge and don’t understand and think, if they only TRIED harder . . . .
And it is this:
Imagine you are standing there, and bracing yourself. Someone puts 2 sandbags on each of your shoulders. And then 2 more, and then 2 more, and then a load of 20 or more . . .
You WILL collapse, because there is a point beyond which you cannot bear the weight. There is a point at which what you are having to endure outstrips your capacity, ability, resources to endure it/cope with it.
Doesn’t matter how hard you try. Anyway, I found that to be a really helpful analogy. It isn’t trying to justify suicide, it is just saying that it is about the pain overwhelming one’s ability to cope with that pain.
Comment by sarebear — 2/6/2006 @ 7:06 pm
it is just saying that it is about the pain overwhelming one’s ability to cope with that pain.
I wish I could help.
Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — 2/9/2006 @ 10:48 pm
No, we are NOT given more than we are able to bear. The word tempt can have 2 meanings: To entice to sin or to test. When Satan tempts you, he is enticing you to sin. When God tempts you (like He did with Abraham) He is testing you.
If Satan tempts you, he wants you to lose hope in all your troubles. He wants you take your mind off of the things of God and focus more on the flesh. The whole purpose of his tempting you and sending hardships your way is to take your eyes of of God. All tribulations from Satan are temptations that are MEANT to destroy joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance; the fruits of the spirit that every believer is to possess.
If we read that scripture then, what God is saying is that He will not allow too much to come our way that it should take our mind off God and the pain should not be unbearable. Paul comes to mind, where he went through so many hardships and then calls his pain “a light affliction”. (2 Corinthians 4:17) Again, this makes sense because as believers we are to always produce fruits of the spirit.
If God is tempting you, he is building you up to be a better, stronger Christian. Romans 5:3-5 comes to mind. This is also not unbearable pain, this is growing pains. Any temptation from God is a test or circumstance to prove or grow your faith, not to be unbearable pain.
We as believers have the Holy Spirit as a comforter, He will enable us to overcome ANY tribulation.
Comment by Travis — 6/5/2006 @ 3:24 pm
Travis, how old are you? How much have you suffered?
I think that whole “God doesn’t give you more than you can bear” is a crock and a tool of the devil. Because people who do suffer unbearable pain think they’re sinful or lacking because they can’t cope.
We have to reach out in those cases, but many just bottle it.
Comment by annegb — 6/6/2006 @ 9:06 am
Maybe those people are lacking, lacking in the area of faith. Its not God’s will for us to commit suicide or lose hope in all of our problems. Considering the fact that it is God’s promise to give us anything as long as it is according to his will (1 John 5:14), how can we then turn around and say that he gives us unbearable pain? Yes the pain may be difficult, but unbearable?
My age has nothing to do with this, and yes, I have had plenty of pain and suffering in my life. Having said that, I choose to have faith in God and His promises. If we ask Him in confidence to relieve us of this pain and we believe in Him, then he will do so. That is his promise. To say otherwise is to call God a liar. I’m not willing to do that. Are you?
Comment by Travis — 6/10/2006 @ 4:13 pm
I’m afraid that you have condemned many great and faithful individuals that have suffered and not been delivered. Innocents suffer…and often God does not intervene, even when asked.
Comment by J. Stapley — 6/10/2006 @ 4:44 pm
J. Stapley, I don’t think you understand. I’m not saying that God will make the pain go away, I am saying he will make you able to DEAL with that pain. Going back to my example with Paul, he went through so much suffering. God didn’t take away the suffering, but God made him able to bear that suffering. I think that sometimes we as Christians focus too much on having the tribulation taken away rather than asking God to use us in the situation and making us able to bear it. This is not a condemnation of any particular person, this is simple fact, some of us do these things.
Comment by Travis — 6/12/2006 @ 10:57 am
Travis,
I just hope you don’t have the kind of experience that challenges everything you are. If you are able to deal with everything that life hands you, then good for you. Sadly, I and many that I am personally aquainted with have had those kinds of experiences. Again, the scripture deals with temptation, not pain.
Comment by Craig S. — 6/12/2006 @ 5:50 pm
Craig and J,
I still understand Travis’ dilemma. If we say that God could allow us to undergo trials that would make it impossible for us not to sin, where does that leave agency? Where does it leave our reliance on God. I don’t think it is Travis’ intent to condemn people, but if in trial we think, “perhaps relying on God simply won’t get me through this,” then faith is vain, and I simply can’t accept that. The other alternative is to say, “yes, if I relied on God, he could get me through, but it is impossible for me, being who I am, to rely on God. I’m just not up to the task.” That seems a bit deterministic to me. So I find myself with Travis thinking that if we rely on God he will get us through, and it is our personal choice whether we rely on God. I don’t think god would ever allow us to be driven to sin without the exercise of meaningful agency somewhere. That doesn’t mean we all don’t have times that we don’t use that agency as we might to rely on God and that pain might not add to that, but I don’t see any other way that it doesn’t become a dilemma.
Comment by Steve H — 6/13/2006 @ 7:14 pm
I am a big proponant of agency, Steve; however, I think it is not binary. There is a continuum of agency and a child that is abused may have limited resources (either in capacity or knowledge). For that matter, I might.
I do believe that by faith in Jesus Christ all things are possible. I also believe that this kind of faith is difficult to attian and that it doesn’t develop overnight. So, perhaps, one can be ultimately culpable, but still can’t change the situation…and, sometimes, perhaps, one isn’t ultimately culpable and still can’t change the situation. I do believe that God will always deliver a measure of comfort to the afflicted soul regardless.
Comment by J. Stapley — 6/13/2006 @ 8:41 pm
Travis, your age is crucial. I used to be sure of a lot of things till I got old.
Comment by annegb — 6/15/2006 @ 11:29 am
I have to jump on this blog…sound my horn…
I have had 16 back surgeries, 6 knee surgeries and have run the gambit of everything from natural/herbal meds to highly addictive opiate drugs. Pain is a daily event 24/7 for me. But when it gets to be too bad I remember that no matter how bad it is it is nothing compared to what Jesus suffered for us. Granted I still am seeking a remedy for my afflictions, but I kow they will not kill me.
Comment by DonnaD — 2/25/2007 @ 7:43 pm